Joseph Dalton is an expert sales and marketing trainer. He is an exceptional businessman
Hello and welcome back to the Dr. Nilda Business Foresight Show. Today I have a very special guest but also with me I have my co-host Rachel Calderon. Say hello Rachel.
Hi, how are you?
We have a very special guest that’s here all the way from Dublin Ireland. Let me tell you about him. Joseph Dalton is an exceptional business person with a vast experience in sales and marketing both in Ireland and abroad. Joseph is a popular weekly radio show host in Dublin Ireland which is called Breakthrough Brands where he speaks to business owners about what makes them tick and how they got started in business. He’s not just a businessman but he also has a live radio show. I want to welcome you Joseph.
How are you ladies? Thank you for having me on the show. It’s early morning where you are and it is afternoon here so, we’re halfway through today.
Ireland is one of those places on my bucket list which I hope to make it to one day. We’re looking forward to possibly next year making it over to Ireland.
In 2018 we’re working on that.
When you are you have to promise me that you’ll get in touch and we’ll meet and greet. And we’ll show you some of the finest sights in Dublin.
Oh, fantastic so we have a tour guide. I’m quite fascinated by what you do. Rachel is the marketer in this team and she’s been doing a phenomenal job. But I also know that you also do marketing but you couple your marketing with sales. Tell me a little bit about that. How do you do that merger because I know in the state’s what I’ve always known as the marketing team is a marketing team and then there’s the sales team. And never the twain shall meet. It’s like a little rivalry but you’ve been able to marry them both. Tell me a little bit about how that works.
Yes, we married them and the reason being because one doesn’t succeed without the other. The marketing team requires the sales and the sales require marketing. We talk about inbound marketing and outbound marketing and everyone has an opinion on it but, what I like to call it is active marketing. The marketing is there to make the person aware of the product. Now you have to understand when someone sees or knows your product they might think of something totally different of what you’re selling or providing. So, the marketing nurtures that for that person so the salesperson could have that call.
When you come into a company you’re teaching a company about the merger. How do you get these teams to work together?
What we initially do is have a one-to-one conversation with all the managers in the business. We’ll sit down and discuss what they want, what they feel and what they need within the business. From there we’ll step back and we’ll devise a bespoke product that will help them work as a team together. You are right a lot of companies out there the marketing team want to go one route and the sales team want to go a different route. But the reality is it’s all about making money. It’s about getting that in front of that customer and closing that deal. The company can’t survive without sales a company has nothing. That’s what we tell them and from there we develop a process on it.
I find that interesting and listening to you today I didn’t even realize that I was doing that myself. I mean I do realize it but I didn’t recognize that most companies separate the two but I incorporate the two myself. I just recognized that a lot of marketers out there do that. It’s kind of hard you know not to merge the two together because you need to. Why do you think that that is an issue?
Ego. Let me just step back a bit. There is a difference between marketing as in direct marketing and branding. What is your customer base? Is it small SMEs or large corporations that you mainly deal with? Which would it be?
Our audiences are primarily small business.
What I say to small business owners is one a lot of them when they come into the marketplace they want to do branding. All they want to do is spend their money on branding and getting their name out there. Branding can take an awful lot of time to actually reach the goal and get in front of the client. So, I tell them what they should do is do strategy marketing. They should do active direct marketing. Getting in front of the people using the marketing to drive that person to understand who they are. But then the sales team knows who they’ve been targeting and then pick up the phone to make that call, send a text or drop that email because no one knows you exist. No one knows what your business is about after you initially make that contact.
Now with that being said about the phone I know that it’s important. A lot of people now are using a lot of artificial intelligence software to almost replace the sales portion. I have found that that is impossible. I mean it’s good to kind of have that as a backup but not fully. Why is the phone still so important to making sales? I know the answer but you share it with our audience.
Communication. There’s a lot of snake oil merchants who say you don’t need to make sales anymore. Buy my gadget go online look at this and you will have hundreds of leads in the next week or month just do it. And people will sign up to this software or this product and wonder why they’re not making any sales. Because the reality is people still need to have a conversation with you to make a sale. If you’re selling a small product for 5 euros or 10 euros okay we’ll buy that online. But if you’re selling a product for five thousand, ten thousand or up to a hundred and fifty thousand you need to have a conversation with people. With all the gadgets that we have out there it’s still the psychology of the mind and how people work. I just want to show you something. See this book here. This was published in 1967 and this book you can see I use it all the time it’s falling apart. This book opened my eyes to how we sell and how the mind thinks. Still with all the years people say old selling ways don’t work. It still works. Old bad selling ways don’t work but we still the psychology of the mind. People need to speak to people. So, your marketing in my opinion I call it active marketing. Active marketing is you do the blogs, you write the letters, you post on social media and that’s only making the person go I exist. Hello, I’m out here. Then from there you get your target list of all the people and companies that you want to contact as well. Then you get the phone, you get your email or you write your letter and you send it out to them. Now one of the theories that we’re finding works quite well. Who writes letters anymore? Who sends post anymore? How many letters do you get unless it’s a bill from somebody?
Even the bills are becoming automated.
Yes. So, when we get a letter in the post we kind of go hmm that’s interesting. My psychology my mind is going that’s interesting who sent me this? So, what we’re doing now we’re picking a list of companies that we want to deal with. I suggest that your clients do this. So, they get their database, they find the name, they look on LinkedIn, they join with them on Facebook or whatever maybe and then they write a letter about their business. Then they fold that letter and handwrite the envelope and send that letter to the person. That person will get it and know all about my business and who I am. Then two weeks later send him another letter saying hi did you get my first letter? And on each letter, you’ll have a call to action driving them to your website or driving to a blog or so on. Also, you’ll have maybe on your website a landing page where you can sign up for an e-book or some free gift from yourself. But the end result is 3-4 weeks down the road you then pick up the phone and because that person knows you because of the letters that they’ve received from you it’s not a cold call. Here is another thing, I know I’m going on, stop calling them cold calls and stop calling people gatekeepers as well. Before you even get into the process you have negative thoughts. So, when you pick up the phone and speak to that person they’ll go I know that name from somewhere but maybe I don’t know where it’s from but I’ll take the call. We’re finding when do this the rate of people taking your calls has improved by about 20%.
I totally believe that. I have not written a letter in a very long time because we have email. At Christmas time I made sure that for every client and anyone that we had any contact with whether they were clients of ours or potential clients I had their address and I sent them a Christmas card. Do you know the amount of people that responded? They called me. They emailed me. They were just like wow. I know we left an impression on them and that was one of my marketing strategies to make sure that I still have that high touch from a distance. But still that high touch.
Because we got involved with technology and we all believe that this was the answer. People forgot about the human nature of who we are. We like gifts. We like to be spoken to. We like to be listened to. This is the part that we all forgot when we talk on the Internet and we took on email. It drives me mad when, and we all do it, when you speak to someone they’ll go drop me an email to remind me. We do want to remind you but sometimes when you’re speaking to people it’s a go away oh drop me an email. It’s an excuse just to get them out. And a lot of people are fearful of the phone. So, when I speak to clients and I go you’re going to use the phone and they go oh my god he uses the phone. What I look at first is the mindset. If you don’t have the proper mindset you’re starting the job all wrong. So, why do people not cold call? The reason why they don’t cold call, this is my own opinion, is because by not calling the prospect it’s still the prospect. They fear when they call the prospect they might say no and it’s no longer a prospect. So, they’ve less the oneness prospect. Does that make sense?
Yes, and I have found that I pick up the phone and I’m like what’s the worst that can happen they say no? I just kind of keep going. There are still so many more prospects out there.
Yes, and people always say fear of failure but, I also think people are fearful of success. If someone says yes what do they have to do as well? So, when you’re picking up the phone I always say to my clients before you make that call have a script. You don’t need to read it off just know that this is the conversations you want to have with the person. A descript is also very good in case you forget something in the conversation you can add later. 10 minutes every morning before you make your calls read the script out loud. Read it four or five times. Get into that comfortable feeling. Get into that positive feeling that this is how it’s going to go. Block off the hour switch off everything else in your phone and then make that call. But make sure that a couple of times before you make it read the script. Get into the momentum and then make the calls. When you have one successful call, what happens? You have another successful call and then you have another and another. The reason why is a talk leads to action and action leads to results. When you get into a positive momentum the people feel that on the other side and then the ball rolls.
Fantastic. My original background, I have several backgrounds as you can see but, one of them is that I’m a therapist. We’ll the one thing I know is that humans crave human interaction unlike animals and unlike anything else that’s created or living organism. They pretty much can function on their own but humans we need to have human interactions. What they’re trying to I want to say almost forced together is this high-tech almost disconnection with the human being. The reality is that we’re doing that and yet we don’t like to be approached that way. We want to be able to pick up a phone and the most frustrating thing is to pick up a phone and call and get an automated system no matter how friendly it is. Hello how are you today? You’re like no. you want to have somebody there that’s going to hear you out. One of the things that I’m notorious for is picking up the phone and if I’m having a problem I’m like look I’m a little frustrated so I’m going to vent here a little bit. I’m going to vent to you although I know this is not your fault. But, I’m going to vent to you because you’re on the other side and I just need to vent so don’t take it personal. It puts them at ease and they have their guard down. They’ll just hear me out and then they’re like okay so here’s how I can help you or this is what you can do next. But, to be able to have that person is I tell you it just it’s amazing. It decreases your anxiety by volumes.
Here’s one okay. How many times have you gone on an email and answered someone and then they come back to you and they answer? Those string of emails lasts a whole day. Well you could’ve just picked up the phone spoke to that person in 40 minutes and that whole day of string of emails would have been eliminated. You would have had more time to yourself or for other projects that you’re doing.
Absolutely and that’s what I do. I said look I’m old-fashioned. Once I see we are texting back and forth several times I realize it’s time for a phone call. It’s time for human interaction.
If you look at a small company that sets up a business and this guy he’s bought the office or he’s bought the laptop. He’s working from home or whatever maybe and he’s sitting there. He’s gone right I’ve got the product and I’ve got everything. I bought this lovely software that’s going to automate everything and then he’s there going why am I not doing any business? What’s happened to my business? Then he has the emotional upset of why things are going wrong because in all the talk and all the process that we all talk about we talk about make sales but no one really shows a lot of people how to make a sale. We talk about handling objections. We talk about sales. We talk about prospecting. But we don’t actually talk about step-by-step process from achieving from the time that you have that talk to make a sale to closing it. What are the steps that one does along that route? Who shows anyone that now a day?
With that here’s a question. One of the things that you say is that the person that’s doing the selling really needs to believe in the product. Why do you think this is crucial?
I believe this because people can smell fear and people can smell BS. If you were selling a product that you truly believe in it comes across. You’re talking about believing in the product at the start but I also believe that people have to before they get into sales or into a business they have to look at their own way of how they feel. Is there anything in the past that they feel is holding them back? And they’re very judgmental towards other people as well and a lot of people are. I’ve learned to wipe my past clean and I don’t gorge anybody at all. I feel that makes me a better person. In doing that I believe it helps me better in the sales process because I believe the biggest thing that a salesperson should have is empathy no matter what it is. Does that answer your question or did I go slightly off?
No that answers the question perfectly. Even more than believing in the actual product is believing that what your servicing them with and what you’re selling them is actually going to help them.
It’s helping the person. You don’t sell never think of the money never think of the score on the board. Think of how am I helping this person because when you help someone they remember that you helped them. They’ll tell other people. It’s providing a service. There is no trickery or there’s no magic in us. It’s just be honest.
Also giving the individual what they need and want. It’s not selling them for the money but you’re helping them because whatever it is that you’re selling is something that’s going to improve the quality of their life in some way. Would that be accurate?
Yes. We all talk about needs and wants. We talk about benefits like someone might come to you and they want something but they need something else. What they really need. It’s fact-finding. It’s asking those questions probing the person. Finding out what we call it a DBM their dominant buying mode. Why they want to buy the product? A sales person should listen and ask questions and from there they’ll make a sale.
Would you say that this is how they can grow their business and increase their sales based on what you’re talking about today? With the high touch high tech and also believing in the products and how they can help others. Is this how you would consider growing?
Yes. Also, it starts with believing in themselves and then it’s believing in the product. I’ve always believed if you want to find out how someone is successful in sales study them and replicate it. That’s where I showed you that book there which was bought back again in 1967. I’ve another book which is my Bible as well it was published in the in the late seventies. I read all the time. I’m studying masters in the field and trying to understand what they’re doing, what we used to do in the past and tweaking it to make it into a system that works. Let’s go into active marketing. Reaching out to the people nurturing. How are you sending out those letters? Getting into that comfortable conversation. Picking up the phone, the email, the text and then there’s a sales process. A sales process that I use is called a five C’s and this breaks it down. In the five C’s it’s contact. In contact you’re looking at prospecting, blueprinting and following up. Then you’re categorizing. You’re showing them proof. You’re analyzing where they are and then you’re going into product features and benefits. How many people do you know talk about products features and benefits when you’re selling them? I use an example we used to use years ago and it was an air bag is a feature and the benefit of an air bag it explodes on impact, correct? The real benefit is when it explodes on impact it saves your life. Feature. Benefit. Real benefit. The only way you find them out is by asking those questions relating to the person. We teach as well to watch people’s body language. So, we know if we’re talking about a product or our clients are talking about a product and their prospect their eyes start to spin. They switch off They know what you’re talking about but they’re not interested in it. You’re talking about to wrong feature so you have to draw back you watch the eyes. Then come back and talk about what they have. Then you get into following in their negative, if they find any objections about it or what they don’t find. So, we ask questions. Here’s one you being a psychologist people hate to think, yes?
I don’t think they hate to think I believe that they’re conditioned not to think that’s the biggest problem.
But, they love to give their opinions.
We never ask them what they think of something. Always ask them what their opinion is. That’s part of the sales process as well.
This is a double question. One of them is, what is the takeaway? And secondly, where do you actually see sales in the future? Because the one huge push, and many companies are so involved in this, is that of artificial intelligence. Everything has to be in a computer. They are looking to pretty much minimize as many people as possible and just make it a computerized process. What is the future of this as you see it? Where do you see it going?
You know when we went to the banks and they were saying they were installing these machines because we didn’t have to queue up anymore and these machines will eliminate queuing up? You go into a supermarket and over here you now have areas for self-service. So, we’re losing that communication. What I think is going to happen is people are going to get sick of all this and want to start having human reaction again. It’s like a lot of companies we’re doing as you said press 1 press 2 press 3 and people were getting tired of that. A lot of companies now are looking to have a voice on the other end to talk to people about it. So, where do I think artificial intelligence will go? I think artificial intelligence will learn so much that it won’t be able to learn anything else again. It’ll just switch off and people will just want to talk to humans again.
I love that.
I completely agree with that statement because I know that artificial intelligence should be a substitute but not a takeover. It never will be able to be a takeover because again as you stated earlier we need that human Touch. We need to hear. We need to speak and when you need to solve a problem and you’re frustrated an automated system does not do that it only has so much intelligence. It only has the intelligence that that one human has put in to that precise software. Again, we can run into an array of problems.
They don’t have empathy.
They don’t have empathy and they will not be able to solve every single problem. It’s not that a human being will but to have them hear you out. To have them sell you something and have them tell you exactly why and it’s not an automated system. You’re going to need that I know I will need that. I’m sure this is human behavior we want to have that interaction. We need to have it in sales. We need to have it in marketing. We need to have it. We want to be sold. We want to be sold by a human being and we want to know more from that human being.
It’s like when you got to buy a carpet or you go to buy a car or you are going to buy something you walk into a store and there’s a genuine person there talking to you and you’re engaged. You feel good about us you feel good about yourself. That’s what it’s about. It’s about just feeling good enjoying life it’s not meant to be crazy it’s not meant to be completely mad. We’re here to have fun and why not talk to people on the way.
It’s so funny that you say that because you made a statement that we love to give our own opinions and sometimes it’s not necessarily to solve the problem it’s just to hear you out. You can be frustrated on the phone and they hear you out and you’re like oh man that felt good. Then it’s like almost like your own you start to process it because I know we do this a lot Dr. Nilda and I. We process things and we’ll speak about it and speak about it and speak about it and then all of a sudden, we’re like okay it’s not a problem anymore. Boom. Done.
Sometimes it’s not even about the frustration especially when it comes to sales. It’s about figuring out and coming up with a solution. It’s not even about a problem but it’s about wow I felt good about that sale and I like that person this is great and you walk away feeling good. That’s what it’s about.
One thing. Pick up the phone. That’s what it’s about. Pick up the phone and speak to people. The more people you speak to the more your business will grow. It’s not going to grow sitting in a room with a laptop on your lap.
Joseph, I want to thank you so much we took your afternoon and I want to thank you so much for being on the show. I understand this is an inconvenience and because it’s in the middle of your day but I want to thank you because this was really important. I think for people there’s a lot of small companies that are going the 100% AI way. There’s also the problem of their sales and their marketing teams not working together or they separate them. If it’s a small company they’ve outsourced and they don’t even know each other so I think it’s very important. I really love this topic. I think it’s very important to our audience and I want to thank you for that and I look forward to having you back again in the very near future.
Ladies it’s been a pleasure thank you for having me on your show and hopefully you’ll come on our show sometime in 2018. Especially when you come to Dublin.
This ends the segment of the Dr. Nilda Business Foresight Show. I want to thank you guys for being here. We have even more fascinating guests and remember we are featuring a lot of futurists and a lot of people who are doing amazing things that you could connect with. We look forward to seeing you next week bye.
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